Hey all! I have done a quick search and haven't found anything on this topic (surprisingly!?)... wondering if anyone on here has tackled a K3-VET conversion on their L880? My new Copen is the 1.3 version and desperately needs more torque so am seriously considering it. I have done this transplant on an L700 mira and it was a great package but there were a few subtle cuts and mods required to fit it nicely. What I'm most interested in is whether people have managed to shoehorn it in without cutting the front slam plate and have perhaps figured out a clever way to mount the intercooler up front? here are some pics of my mira conversion for interests sake https://photos.app.goo.gl/znPYRiQLLtE8E1dK2
I’m surprised you need more torque with the 1.3 engine. I used to hit T-junctions in 3rd and the car still pulled like a train. In fact it was a much more relaxed drive than my 2.0 MX-5.
wow.. your MX5 must be seriously under powered! don't get me wrong, it's perfectly fine for pottering around. It's a fun car to drive but certainly not exciting... if that makes sense? It doesn't really even have enough torque to worry about wheel spin in 1st gear. It's got good rubber on it - Dunlop ZII* ... perhaps another way of looking at it is I haven't yet driven it and thought "this could really do with an LSD"... that alone tells me enough
Wheel spin in 1st wasn’t a problem in the Copen and it used to confuse a few boy racers off the lights. The MX-5 is obviously quicker but with limited opportunity for wheel spin as the LSD helps in that regard. However, your original post was about torque rather than gearing and my comments stand. The 1.3 Copen was happy at pretty much any revs and would pull strongly from very low revs. The MX-5 is happiest above 3,000 rpm and 4-5k stirs things up considerably.
hmm... no, torque and gearing are very much related. I'm quite happy to accept that everyone's got their own view on how much is 'enough' and leave it at that, but we've strayed from the intend of the thread, which was to find info on what the conversion entails. We can start talk on the physics of torque in another thread
I have read about a K3-VET conversion before, because my friend has a 1.3 Copen and was thinking about turbocharging it. I haven't found anything about if it has been done before on a copen. What I did find is the 1.3L Copen uses a K3-VE and the K3-VET is just a turbo variation of the same engine. So that means, the engine itself will fit, but I don't think there's gonna be enough room for the turbo and intercooler as it looks to be pretty tight in there. If you want a more powerful Copen, I'd probably not engine swap it and tune the 1.3 engine by other means or just tune the 659cc Copen as those JB-DETs are pretty strong and capable. 200HP Copen!!! (Not Clickbait)
There's a 1.5 ltr version of the K3-ve that someone installed in a copen in Perth if I remember correctly.
Some good comments there the K3-VE and the VET do share the same platform (other than internal changes) but there are a few subtle differences which impact conversions, one of the more significant ones being the mounting position of the power steering pump. On the VET it sits lower to allow room for the turbo inlet. This is an issue when fitting it to the L700 Mira because the PS pump pulley interferes with the RH head light body. It might not be an issue on the Copen?? I don't know...The other is, as you pointed out, space for the turbo. Again, on the L700, the top plate of the front crash "structure" needs to be cut and modified to clear the wastegate actuator. Not a big deal on the L700 as it's made of steel, but the Copen top plate is a composite/plastic material, so a little more difficult to fabricate changes. Mo-FAC attack this by hacking out what they need to clear the turbo and leaving it! it's one way forward, I suppose https://photos.app.goo.gl/fWG2hTt6g5wYFa9x7 Not impossible to reinforce it but would need to be bolted/riveted/grafted in place. Other than these hurdles, I'm in the dark. Subframe and mounting etc is all OK. As to power, if you knew how much Mo-FAC spend to get a JB over 160hp you might reconsider that statement... the cost to get to 200hp is eye watering. They replace rods, pistons, cams, throttle and loads of ancillary parts The JB engine certainly is good, for what it is, but it doesn't even come close to what the K3 is capable of. VET with an ECU and boost increase will make 200hp and 30kg.m torque without touching a single mechanical component. The factory injectors are tapped out at that, though. @jez77 I've considered the 3SZ... it does make good mid-range torque. Physical height is a potential issue being 24mm taller than the K3. There's a similar but different issue with power steering of the 3SZ, too. In this case it's that the 3SZ doesn't have one... all the cars this is fitted to run a column mounted electric steer assist motor. Not a biggie.. the Copen could be converted to electric PS... just a different way up the mountain.
I’m a big fan of custom motors but I can’t help feeling you’d be better off with a different car such as a Focus or even Fiesta ST where you may at least get some of your investment back when it comes time to sell. The Copen is so niche that stock cars hold their value better than modded versions. As it happens, I got my one and only speeding ticket in NZ near Gore. 111kph. Just as well it wasn’t a few days before near Wanaka around the lake to Queenstown. Mazda MPS at a tad over that - but in my own country’s units of measurement !
man we really do like changing the subject... retail on them isn't great anyway! my one is the only 1.3 registered in the country and it sat on trademe for months before the owner lowered the price to accept my offer which was probably half what you'd import one for. things like this really only gain attention in NZ if they've got some [more] excitement factor as long as mods are done tastefully then I don't see any reason why they wouldn't add value and, of course, fun Ford Focus... you may as well buy an autonomous car and watch it go round the track from the grandstand. At least then you could have a beer to make up for the lack of entertainment
There's been plenty of other post with people wanting to make a fast copen. The problem is that a Copen isn't fast and to make it even be able to keep up with any number of hot hatches let alone a properly fast car is going to cost heaps more than the cars worth. I one calculated what it would cost to get a turbo copen to keep up with a standard 1.8l MX5 and it was somewhere around 7k. That said I you have that money to put into a project I'd love to see it done.
For a little torque upgrade you can also take the 1.5 from a Terios. I've read somewhere about a K3-VET in the Copen. But don't remember what had to be modified in de engine bay.
Just adding some thoughts. 659cc copen with 67hp takes 11.7 seconds to get to 60mph And the 1.3 with only 19 more hp takes 9.5 seconds. Since the car is so light, it doesn't take much to reduce the time by 2 seconds. If you upgraded the intake, ecu and exhaust of the 1.3 and maybe, I don't know, got 15, 20 or so more hp, you could knock another 2 seconds off the time, making it a 7 - 8 second car. That's fast enough right? Maybe do some weight reduction. Lighter wheels, lighter seats etc. Reduce weight by 10 or so KG in total and I'd say it would be plenty fast for not too much money. But I suppose everyone has their own opinion on what is "plenty fast"
@jez77 you've got a point and spending $7k on it, even in kiwi dollars, would be more than I paid for the car. Although a VET engine is only worth $1k and the rest is time. I guess the purpose of this thread was not to ask 'how can I make it faster?', but rather inviting input from anyone who has done the K3-VET conversion in a Copen to see if there are any pearls of wisdom that'll make life easier. @AFR0N1 the easy answer to that is to fit the K3-VE2 which is 100hp out of the box. But if you compare torque curves to the VE fitted to the Copen, the VE2 lags behind in torque by quite a bit up to 4000rpm so there's only 3500rpm to benefit from. Not a bad solution by any means and is certainly the easiest of all but if we're talking 'bang-for-buck' then the turbo engine has it in droves. I am a big fan of reducing weight to make a car faster as the car's handling and braking benefits from this in the same way. It's already got one of the lightest set of wheels on the market fitted so that's a good start and a driver seat change is going to happen very soon but more to lower it to prevent my head from pressing against the roof the fact that a race seat is light-weight is a secondary benefit
Hello, i’ve installed the 3SZ engine from Terios 3 years ago, no issues with power steering or ecu, i do remember that motor base has similar height, but cilinder head is about 2cm higher, i wonder if VET engine isn’t also? All required mods are explained with pictures at the modification forum. Regards, Joost.
