I have just bought a 2009 Copen, and want to get an A frame fitted to tow behind my motor home. Can someone answer these:- Are there 2 towing eye holes in the front crash bar, one on the roght the other on the left, (behind the bumper) Is the crash bar bolted to the front and therefore easily removed? Has anyone got a high resolution picture of the front end with the bumper off? Thanks Michael
Hi Michael, We recently bought a Copen and we also own a motorhome which we use to travel around Europe for about 16 weeks every year and the UK for another 6/8 weeks. When we started touring seriously in 2011 we towed a Toyota Aygo on an A Frame quite happily but mainly in France. Unfortunately, and despite the new 2014 EUR trailer rules, towing a car with an A Frame in many other European countries is a huge 'grey area' and the likelihood of being stopped by 'Plod' has more to do with what side of the bed he got out of that morning rather than an understanding of the rules. We wanted to travel further afield and decided to not take the risk, and resorted to towing our motorbike on a trailer. After 40 years of motorcycling I decided this year that 'enough was enough' and my bike and all our gear is up for sale. We bought the Copen as a replacement for the bike and in the new year we will buy a suitable trailer for it so we can tow it behind the van. I obviously don't know what experience you have so please forgive me if I'm stepping on your toes but before you do commit to an A Frame (if the Copen allows it) I advise you to research fully the ins and outs of towing with an A Frame particularly in Europe (if that's where you'll be going). Be careful when A Frame manufacturers tell you that 'their' bit of kit is legal in Europe; they all say that but the reality can be different. All the best with whatever you do. Bill
Hi Bill, Thanks, I appreciate the comments, I have a US RV and have towed a trailer with a car for the last 3 years for the very reason you highlight. However we are downsizing to a Euro van and decided that we would use the garage for a scooter and the bikes. So I have seen a couple of Copens and with the downsize we thought we would get one. It would fit on our trailer anyway, but we would have the A frame for when that suited. We spend up to 6 months away in Europe and this year I have seen so many A framed cars, English, French and Belgium, and now a friend of mine, ex police, has decided to give it a try in Spain this winter so I am waiting his feed back too. I have seen a Copen with an A frame but I have been asked about some detail on the towing eye position as this is used for one of the A Frame positions, do you know how high off the ground it is? Michael
Hi Michael, I've just had a look in my Copen manual and the front of the car. The Copen does not have the 'normal' screw in towing eyebolt that you would normally find with your car jack etc. It has 2 permanent eyes/loops made of approximately 12mm diameter steel which you might thread a rope through or hook a tow rope onto. The bottom of the loop is 120mm off the ground. Without further inspection I can't be sure but they appear to be welded to the lower front sub frame. You can see them on dunf's photo above - look at the left axle stand (as you are looking at the photo) and then look to the left along the bottom of the front sub frame - you will see something pointing straight down - it is the offside loop (end on view). The nearside loop can be seen to the right of the right axle stand. I tried to attach a close up view of my nearside towing loop but failed miserably. Having said all the above it is obvious that an A frame can be fitted to a Copen though it might take a little more work compared to an Aygo etc. If you haven't already, have a look at www.armitagetrailers.com/Aframes.htm then click A frame Gallery A-Z. Click on the Daihatsu Copen link and you'll see some photos. That's about it I think but I'm willing to discuss more if you have any questions regarding A Frame towing. Regards Bill
Hi Michael, How are you getting on with the A Frame decision? There's a pretty good article on the subject in the latest MMM which pretty much confirms that using one in Europe is still not 100% approved everywhere. Regards
Hi Bill, I spent some time investigating A frames and was struggling to find a solution I would be happy with, so as of yet I have not committed. I have modified my trailer to accommodate the Copen. I have a mover on it so had to relocate the battery and control box. Our first trip when we get the new Flair will be without the car, we have got a couple of electric bikes and will try those and hire a car when needed. It does seem that fitting the bar to the front can be a test, I am at the NEC this weekend and hope to find some A frame installers to talk to. Kind regards Michael
Any trailer over 750kg must be braked, and a copen weighs about 850kg. How do you make the copen brakes work when you are towing on the A frame? As for the A frame towing points, just pull the front bumper off and weld 2 x threaded tubes into the fronts of the front chassis rails below the head lights, then you can screw in 2 x threaded towing eyes into them via a couple of neatly drilled holes in the front bumper.
Hi Threepot, There are various methods for braking a car towed on an A Frame but generally speaking they fall into the vacuum assisted and electronic (probably more accurate to say 'electric') categories. I don't have any experience of a vacuum assisted system and the gubbins needed to make the system work so I won't comment. However I do have a lot of experience of towing a Toyota Aygo on an A Frame which incorporated an electric system for braking the car. A electric motor with a rotary output is fitted to the bulkhead of the car (behind the pedals) and an arm is connected between the brake pedal and the rotary part of the motor. Wiring is fitted from the motor to a socket installed somewhere on the front of the car (normally behind a grill so it is not too obtrusive with part of the grill cut out for access). For towing a cable is connected between the motorhome socket and the socket on the car and when the brake pedal in the motorhome is depressed an electric impulse is transmitted to the motor behind the pedals. Through the rotary action the connecting lever pulls on the brake pedal (as opposed to a foot depressing it) and hey presto, the brakes work. When the motorhome brake pedal is released the car brake pedal is released also. The lights and in particular the brake lights on the car operate through the same electric connections and we had an LED fitted to the dash on the motorhome which lit up when the brakes were applied - confirmation that the system is working. We had a dummy key cut for the car's ignition so that the steering lock could be disengaged (highly recommended ). When not towing the electric motor and connecting lever remain fitted and the car drives normally (and passes MOTs). A bit long winded but I hope it explains the system we used. Cheers
Bill has given you the simple explanation, some additional info is that you will struggle to find a car that weights under 750kg, also the law on trailer brakes is if there are brakes they have to work regardles of weight. So the car attached to the A frame becomes in VOSA's eyes a trailer, the car has brakes, they have to work. I am concerned about the front end modifications required and have therefore been slow in following through, I have a 2008 1.3 with only 5000 miles, and mint.
Thank you for the towing system description! Although not the most complicated of system, I could see it being quite expensive being quite specialist stuff. And installation is quite specialist too. I've often seen campers towing cars, and wondered how many are actually legally towing.
